YUANQING BLUENOSE - Peter Voogt [COMPLETED BUILD]

[Peter Voogt]

Hello Peter. You pulled it off. The way the furl is done certainly lets us see all your detail which I am a huge fan off. I am assuming you will have all the sail’s furled ? Cheers Grant

Thanks, Grant. I intend to make 7 of the 8 sails furled: Main-, Fore-, both top- and the 3 jib-sails. I'll leave the Fisherman's Staysail.
For all the interested of the sail plan of the schooners:

I found the pictures on internet, don’t know who the author is.
Regards, Peter

 

[GrantTyler]

Thanks, Grant. I intend to make 7 of the 8 sails furled: Main-, Fore-, both top- and the 3 jib-sails. I'll leave the Fisherman's Staysail.
For all the interested of the sail plan of the schooners:
View attachment 335526
Regards, Peter

Look forward
I’m super glad you sent the sail layout- I would never have known where the fisherman’s staysail fitted. Cheers Grant

 

[RDN1954]

So fragile, but very convincing.
Great work, Peter.

 

[RDN1954]

Just to make sure I understand correctly; you fabricated the sail from tissue paper, papieren zakdoekjes and then just one layer only?
Way beyond me, Peter, way beyond me...

 

[Peter Voogt]

So fragile, but very convincing.
Great work, Peter.

Just to make sure I understand correctly; you fabricated the sail from tissue paper, papieren zakdoekjes and then just one layer only?
Way beyond me, Peter, way beyond me...

Thanks, Johan. And you are correct: the 1/3 layer of the paper tissue is fragile. I had to work very concentrated with the 2 tweezers. At the and there where 2 little holes, but could hide them between the foldings.
Regards, Peter

 

[Heinrich]

Dear Peter. I probably typed and re-typed this message three times for fear of being misinterpreted. I dearly want to like those furled sails, but just as in the case with Paul's VASA, I will refrain from commenting until I have seen the final effect. What you have done with this build is groundbreaking to say the least and I have no doubt that your method of furling and the material used for making the sails, will follow that route. On the other hand, I am scared that it might challenge my imagination beyond its current scope of reference.

 

[dockattner]

might challenge my imagination beyond its current scope of reference.

I LOVE this comment @Heinrich.

Some of us are engineers (technicians) in how we approach our builds. Others of us are artists and that informs our approach. A few (and I'm speaking deferentially here) can do both. Now, add on top of that our preconceived ideas and understandings and conclusions about how something should be built (and what something we build should look like) and suddenly we have the same ship built 10 different ways by 10 different people.

For example, Daniel (@Daniel20) and I are building the same ship (albeit with different base models) and we have each chosen to modify the kit according to our vision for the final result. Two Vasas could not look more different. Daniel has skills I do not have and vice versa. But more than that we have a different end goal in mind.

To the point, based on things you have posted, you have an idea of what a furled sail should look like and if differs from what Peter has shown (and in my case it differs from what I have shown). I am so grateful you have felt comfortable sharing that what you see is not aligned with what you have in your mind (speaking for myself - I'll allow Peter to respond for himself).

A forum should churn out better work than any one of us might accomplish in our hobby rooms left to our own devices...while recognizing the giftings and vision of the builder. Anyway, I appreciate your musings, Heinrich.

Sorry for the diversion Peter.

 

[Heinrich]

I LOVE this comment @Heinrich.

Some of us are engineers (technicians) in how we approach our builds. Others of us are artists and that informs our approach. A few (and I'm speaking deferentially here) can do both. Now, add on top of that our preconceived ideas and understandings and conclusions about how something should be built (and what something we build should look like) and suddenly we have the same ship built 10 different ways by 10 different people.

For example, Daniel (@Daniel20) and I are building the same ship (albeit with different base models) and we have each chosen to modify the kit according to our vision for the final result. Two Vasas could not look more different. Daniel has skills I do not have and vice versa. But more than that we have a different end goal in mind.

To the point, based on things you have posted, you have an idea of what a furled sail should look like and if differs from what Peter has shown (and in my case it differs from what I have shown). I am so grateful you have felt comfortable sharing that what you see is not aligned with what you have in your mind (speaking for myself - I'll allow Peter to respond for himself).

A forum should churn out better work than any one of us might accomplish in our hobby rooms left to our own devices...while recognizing the giftings and vision of the builder. Anyway, I appreciate your musings, Heinrich.

Sorry for the diversion Peter.

I am sure, Peter will allow us the diversion. Thank you so much for your comment, Paul and the way that you see it. The comment is because I take an active interest in your builds. On top of that your two builds are firmly ensconced in the upper echelons of model building. As such I see a pattern or line developing in your builds and when I then see something which is not what I expected, I am between the rock and the hard place as to what to say. By saying that I will reserve my comments, I am allowing for a new pattern of build to evolve - one which will indicate the way that you and Peter are progressing. I trust that makes sense.

On the WB I am basing my aesthetics on a picture which I absolute adore whilst still adhering to accuracy of Ab's plans. If I were to incorporate part of the replica build into my model, it would be a gross conflict of interest. That is why I have built a new ship to create integrity and fluency in the build.

 

[Daniel20]

Hello Peter, I am just now visiting your Bluenose for the first time. I was referenced here by Paul @dockattner's fine rendition of differing interpretations combining to create what is certainly one of the most amazing forums ever to share one's abilities. The Bluenose is one of ships on my list to build at some point. As time allows, I will visit more of your build here.

 

[Alf in Iowa]

Gimminy! I go off for a fall leaf-color trip for a couple few days and a monument to modeling ingenuity here stands when I get back! Not only is the furling prototypically reproduced but it's done _as_ the sail is _first_ prototypically rigged open. Far cry from just rolling up a tissue and tying the roll to the mast (which at one time may probably have won some modeling contests).

Good photos Peter and I like that you included the sketch as well.

 

[Steef66]

Lifevieuw of this furled sail is amazing. On this scale it just looks perfect

 

[Peter Voogt]

Hi Heinrich @Heinrich, Paul @dockattner, Daniel @Daniel20, Alf @Alf in Iowa, Stephan @Steef66 and the others.
It took some time to give a reaction, because this afternoon Stephan, Maarten @Maarten and myself had a ‘Mini-Sail’ meeting to talk about making model-sails and to show our prototypes we have made the last weeks and the different fabrics and technics we have used. Soon we will come up with an overarching post and summary. But first some new tests based on our findings. In my case: thin Japanese paper, with long fibers and a bit of color.

A first: I hope I can express my response well in English ……..
Then I would like to thank you very much for your responses. No misunderstanding, no problem with diversions etc etc. I really reallly appreciate this.
I can also well understand that what I showed with the sail caused some ‘frowning in the eyebrows’. What is this .........
But did that also happens when someone started making wooden ship models from paper.....? With beautiful examples Ab Hoving's models made of paper with ....... ‘fabric’ sails. So it can go either way. But directly the remark: I don't want to compare myself at all in terms of knowledge and skills with Ab! Then I'm a lot of steps lower on the ‘model staircase’.

I have the advantage that what I make, I also directly see with my own eyes. In terms of proportion, colour, material ..... in '3D'. And have to make something of it to show to you on the photo’s here on the forum, in '2D'.
A good example was treating the bare wood with linseed oil and painting the hull with Ecoline in red and black. But what it looked like in the picture on the forum ......... mwa ..... Until Johan @RDN1954 and Henk @Henk Liebre saw this 'life' and I thought, they liked it. And now it is also the case with the sail, what you see it on the photo ......... mwa ...... And what Stephan and Maarten saw 'life' this afternoon. I had brought the main mast and the just made 2nd topsail. I think they thought it was beautiful and realistic. Also seen Stephan's response just a moment ago.

I also have to put it nicely into words that when something new comes along, and it doesn't actually fit into my frame of reference, it takes some time to descend and get a spot.
What the three of us did recognize this afternoon is that there are 2 important points with regard to making model sails: the scale and open or furled sails. And furled is stretchable again, as can be seen on the models of Paul and myself. And of course many other models.
That is the beauty of the forum: a lot of input and use what is useful when making your own model.
PS: Perhaps in a few years, everybody is making tissue-paper model-sails …….
Regards, Peter

 

[RDN1954]

Hi Heinrich @Heinrich, Paul @dockattner, Daniel @Daniel20, Alf @Alf in Iowa, Stephan @Steef66 and the others.
It took some time to give a reaction, because this afternoon Stephan, Maarten @Maarten and myself had a ‘Mini-Sail’ meeting to talk about making model-sails and to show our prototypes we have made the last weeks and the different fabrics and technics we have used. Soon we will come up with an overarching post and summary. But first some new tests based on our findings. In my case: thin Japanese paper, with long fibers and a bit of color.

A first: I hope I can express my response well in English ……..
Then I would like to thank you very much for your responses. No misunderstanding, no problem with diversions etc etc. I really reallly appreciate this.
I can also well understand that what I showed with the sail caused some ‘frowning in the eyebrows’. What is this .........
But did that also happens when someone started making wooden ship models from paper.....? With beautiful examples Ab Hoving's models made of paper with ....... ‘fabric’ sails. So it can go either way. But directly the remark: I don't want to compare myself at all in terms of knowledge and skills with Ab! Then I'm a lot of steps lower on the ‘model staircase’.

I have the advantage that what I make, I also directly see with my own eyes. In terms of proportion, colour, material ..... in '3D'. And have to make something of it to show to you on the photo’s here on the forum, in '2D'.
A good example was treating the bare wood with linseed oil and painting the hull with Ecoline in red and black. But what it looked like in the picture on the forum ......... mwa ..... Until Johan @RDN1954 and Henk @Henk Liebre saw this 'life' and I thought, they liked it. And now it is also the case with the sail, what you see it on the photo ......... mwa ...... And what Stephan and Maarten saw 'life' this afternoon. I had brought the main mast and the just made 2nd topsail. I think they thought it was beautiful and realistic. Also seen Stephan's response just a moment ago.

I also have to put it nicely into words that when something new comes along, and it doesn't actually fit into my frame of reference, it takes some time to descend and get a spot.
What the three of us did recognize this afternoon is that there are 2 important points with regard to making model sails: the scale and open or furled sails. And furled is stretchable again, as can be seen on the models of Paul and myself. And of course many other models.
That is the beauty of the forum: a lot of input and use what is useful when making your own model.
PS: Perhaps in a few years, everybody is making tissue-paper model-sails …….
Regards, Peter

The past year saw me making a few sails; one for the Bluenose, unfurled, and five furled sails for the Scottish Maid. The latter ones were made full and later furled once installed on the yards, gaffs and stays.
Until you've found a process, matching your preferences and capabilities, every solution is fair game, so to use tissue paper, although unconventional, is among the possibilities.
I wouldn't have turned to tissue paper, it's way too fragile for my liking, but you sure came up with a very convincing sail. I'm anticipating similar impressive results from your co-conspirators....

 

[Peter Voogt]

Thanks, Johan.

I'm anticipating similar impressive results from your co-conspirators....

Stephan and Maarten had some very nice and partly unconventional prototypes of sails. We are in close contact and after working out some new ideas, we will come with a post asap.
Regards, Peter

 

[Peter Voogt]

With the application of the topsail it was convenient to be able to put the mast loose in the vice. And securing it to the mast hoops was easiest with a horizontal mast.
That's what I'm going to do with the main sail. For the time being, the mast is not yet installed.
It also means that I will make the main boom and the main gaff for the main sail, to fit all those three parts on the separate mast.

Started with the gaff. As inspiration:

Left: a sketch from The Saga by L.B. Jenson. The special hanging of the gaff can be seen there. In addition to the peak halliard, also along the mast the throat halliard. This consists of 2x2 blocks and the halliard is a 1 piece rope that is secured on 2 sides. At the claw a 1-disc and a 2-disc block. At the top 2 2-disc blocks. I'll show you in detail how this works later when I apply it.
Middle: a photo of SoS member Robin @NovaStorm during his visit to the BN-II in Lunenburg. The claw with the so-called clapper in the fork. This provides guidance along the mast. The metal bracket is also clearly visible where the 2 blocks should be attached.
Right: a photo of SoS member Roger @RogerD from his visit to the BN-II. The bracket and both blocks along the mast can be seen there. As well as how I want to put the mainsail furled on my model.
Both Robin and Roger: thanks again for your pictures, they are very useful for me!

Made the main gaff:

The spar was first turned to the correct diameter, in accordance with the measurements in Jenson and Langford. On the bracket a 5 mm 1-disc and 2-disc block, on the 3 'bridles' each a 5 mm 1-disc block.
In detail:

Left: both fingers of the claw fixed together with 3 brass rods through the spar, the partly hinged clapper and the bracket and both blocks.
Middle: 2 of the 3 'bridles' for the peak halliard. At the top a band with 2 ears with at the front a 3mm 1-disc block for the halliard of the topsail and at the bottom a 2.5mm 1-dics block for a flag line.
Right: I had first assumed that the throat halliard consisted of a 3-disc block on the mast and a 2-disc block on the gaff. But now after studying how this hoist actually works, I have replaced the 3-disc block on the mast with an 'balance' bracket with 2 5mm 2-disc blocks on it.

All in all, I spent a lot of time hanging over the drawings and descriptions before I could figure out exactly how everything worked. Not only for the gaff but also for the boom and how this operates.
Chapelle was also helpful with 12 pages of gaff-information. To much to show here. The bracket by the claw is called ‘Spectacle iron’.
Regards, Peter

 

[dockattner]

A keen eye for detail and wonderful execution against the plan, Peter. Bravo!

 

[Peter Voogt]

A keen eye for detail and wonderful execution against the plan, Peter. Bravo!

Thanks, Paul. This time it was on the limit. For sure the bracket. Al those parts jumps in all directions. Both when making and applying. But fun to discover and with a satisfying result. So far still without soldering.
Regards, Peter

 

[Alf in Iowa]

What a wonderful coincidence: As I was studying (and I _do_ _study_ build log photos) these latest photos our mail lady came with my brown envelope from Canada. I now have my fourteen little bags from Dry-Dock Models and Parts.

 

[Daniel20]

Extraordinary detail Peter, I like the way you have stropped the blocks and without soldering!

 

[dockattner]

What a wonderful coincidence: As I was studying (and I _do_ _study_ build log photos) these latest View attachment 336432photos our mail lady came with my brown envelope from Canada. I now have my fourteen little bags from Dry-Dock Models and Parts.

Let's see: analog camera, flip phone, paper appointment book, the most sophisticated model ship blocks on the planet. Nice to see you're on the cutting edge of life, Alf !