Hohenzollernmodell 1660-1670 Scale 1/75 POF build by Stephan Kertész (Steef66)

[dockattner]

The HZ model having a lot of angels in the decoration. And my admiral loves angels

Smart man...gets to do a hobby he likes and keeps his wife happy at the same time...

Well played, Stephan. Well played.

 

[Herman]

And I have to start al over again. Another keel, stern and bow is needed. The HZ model having a lot of angels in the decoration. And my admiral loves angels, so she will not forgive me when I change plans.

In that case, certainly stick with the plan.

 

[Maarten]

I like your thinking Stephan, as we say:


The funny thing is most probably the original 7p would have been build according Maze methode as she was build at the maze yard.
But your idea I think is perfect. Hohenzollern model wasn't t an actual ship anyway but a marketing gimmick to sell more ships to Kurfurst of Brandenburg, maybe that is also the reason for the undutch under water hull shape.

Adfitionally you can also use Ab's two decker drawing.

 

[Steef66]

Adfitionally you can also use Ab's two decker drawing

Thanks Maarten, I already changed some parts of the lining plans because of the mistakes that are in the original. So why not this.
Ab's twodecker drawing?

 

[Steef66]

I did a few changes to the line plan. It's something between both plans of the P7 and the HZ.

This drawing shows the original HZ line plan


And the bottom was the problem
so I changed that into this


All the 3 plans together


And the new waterlines


I even make a 1st waterline, to get the garboard strake in the right way. especially between frame 2 to 11 is importance and I can see where it ends (frame 23-25) There I made a mistake in the first build. I went up to frame 28. But I need to end at the 'kinnebak' frame 26.

You also can see that the floor is not horizontal like the 7P. When I would achieve that the shape of the ship would change to much.

Thanks all for reading this boring stuff. I promise the next updates will be more fun.

 

[Maarten]

Looks promissing.

 

[Steef66]

Looks promissing.

Yes, but I'm not quite satisfied. I'll save this and give it a second try to make it more like te 7P. Just a try if it is possible.

 

[Steef66]

Hours behind the computer to change the drawing again to try to let the bottom of the ship like the 7 Provinciën.
The problem is the major difference in the stern of both ships. But it seems to be okay. Need to check it out in 3D.
The first attempt


And the second attempt with a much flatter and horizontal bottom.


Both in 1 drawing


The 7 Provinciën.


The stern of the 7P is lower because of the the fact that the ship have more volume below and lies higher in the water. That makes some unnatural shaping in the stern part of the hull when I hold on to the stern of the HZ. Things to think of when making a decision which drawing
I have to think about which drawing to use.

 

[Maarten]

Hi Stephan,

It seems odd in the HZ model the transom is completely out of the water. However we see this also with Witsens Pinas.
What I understand is that the shape of the transome is again dictated by the available wood for the fashion pieces, so your design certainly will be possible.
You can also search internet for Van de Velde drawings showing this in actual two deckers.

 

[Steef66]

Hi Stephan,

It seems odd in the HZ model the transom is completely out of the water. However we see this also with Witsens Pinas.
What I understand is that the shape of the transome is again dictated by the available wood for the fashion pieces, so your design certainly will be possible.
You can also serch internet for Van de Velde drawings showing this in actual two deckers.

Thanks, usefull information. I'll make the 3D model in CAD to check out the hull and her shape. This only takes time and no materials.

 

[Peter Voogt]

That is a major difference in shape, Stephan. And nice to see how you manage and compare all this in your CAD program.
Regards, Peter

 

[ara]

Thanks, usefull information. I'll make the 3D model in CAD to check out the hull and her shape. This only takes time and no materials.

Here´s the transom of the Waasdorp (Amsterdam 1663), as drawn by Van de Velde. The shape is almost identical to the HZ. So it´s nothing unusual about it.

 

[Steef66]

That is a major difference in shape, Stephan. And nice to see how you manage and compare all this in your CAD program.
Regards, Peter

Thanks Peter, once you understand how it works in AutoCAD it somehow easy to manage.

Here´s the transom of the Waasdorp (Amsterdam 1663), as drawn by Van de Velde. The shape is almost identical to the HZ. So it´s nothing unusual about it.

View attachment 372255

Thanks for your picture, there is nothing wrong with the transom, it is about the changes I made to the bottom of the plans and if that would fit to the transom.

 

[Steef66]

The 3D file looks perfect to me and I will use the last drawing of the line plans I made in AutoCAD. I made a screen video of what I did to it. Need better software to capture this. Or maybe there is a way to make a 3D model that is easy to transfer to YouTube. Let me know if there is an easy solution.

here is the video that shows the shape:

 

[Steef66]

@Maarten reminded me of the nuts that need to go into the keel to secure it. Just as Paul @dockattner also did.

But not a M6 or M8, I used a M2. It is small.



I started wit the garboard strake. I left 2 piece of wood a few days sock in water and after that I can form them how I will and let them dry in that position. This tip came from Marcus @flying_dutchman2

 

[Steef66]

Everybody thanks for the support, likes and visit to my log.
I'm back building and have the garboard strake ready (again) this time I take more care to mount it in the right way.

 

[dockattner]

A wonderful learning experience!

 

[Steef66]

@ all thanks for the likes and visit.

A wonderful learning experience!

And I learned a lot Paul. I avoid a lot of tiny mistakes I did in the beginning.

On the Dutch forum I got a little help from Amazone, a Belgium model builder that experience this kind of build. And he notice the same mistakes as he made in the beginning in my build.
Building a jig to make the planking easy is some kind of cheating. But make some tools to measuring looks to me okay. So I will do it again like the first start. Only not with just paper cutouts of the frames. I use now hardboard to see if I go the right way. In the picture below I show them how I start bending the wet wood in place to dry. After that I cut the planks in shape before glue them.



I notice now also the first mistake I made the first time. The first layers of the planking of the floor I glued the first time to the knee on the stern beam. This time I didn't do that again and I only glue them to the stern beam.

On the bow is the second change I make. The garboard strake stops earlier and I let the floor planking make a bigger turn around it. Pictures shows how

Old:


And the new situation:



To get the planking in the correct shape, I use a jig to clamp the wet strip of wood. I show you the jig now. Next time I take a picture how this works. The jig I build before when I was working on the Newport.



Thanks for the visit

 

[dockattner]

I am always happy when I see you have a new post Stephan. I enjoy watching your innovative work.

 

[RDN1954]

@ all thanks for the likes and visit.

And I learned a lot Paul. I avoid a lot of tiny mistakes I did in the beginning.

On the Dutch forum I got a little help from Amazone, a Belgium model builder that experience this kind of build. And he notice the same mistakes as he made in the beginning in my build.
Building a jig to make the planking easy is some kind of cheating. But make some tools to measuring looks to me okay. So I will do it again like the first start. Only not with just paper cutouts of the frames. I use now hardboard to see if I go the right way. In the picture below I show them how I start bending the wet wood in place to dry. After that I cut the planks in shape before glue them.

View attachment 374014View attachment 374015View attachment 374016

I notice now also the first mistake I made the first time. The first layers of the planking of the floor I glued the first time to the knee on the stern beam. This time I didn't do that again and I only glue them to the stern beam.

On the bow is the second change I make. The garboard strake stops earlier and I let the floor planking make a bigger turn around it. Pictures shows how

Old:
View attachment 374021

And the new situation:

View attachment 374022

To get the planking in the correct shape, I use a jig to clamp the wet strip of wood. I show you the jig now. Next time I take a picture how this works. The jig I build before when I was working on the Newport.

View attachment 374023

Thanks for the visit

To some extent I'm pleased to see you are using "form boards". Previously, I couldn't wrap my head around the idea to build a hull without any references, other than what's in your head.
Regardless, impressive it is! I hope to see you and your current build in Amsterdam, coming September.