Santisima Trinidad - Occre Build Log [COMPLETED BUILD]

[Donnie]

Re: OcCre Santisima Trinidad Build Log

<t>Not much to say other than this is turning into an ordeal - I thought I would never figure out how to do this first one. One little hint. I am not using all of the sail material. About 1/2 is not being used, otherwise, the furle would be too thick. <br/>
EDIT: Yes, a big mistake, but not too hard to correct. Once the Yards were mounted on the mast, I found out that the blocks were not close enough in towards the mast. Therefore, the sail management rigging (buntlines, leechlines, ect. path was going to be interrupted by the shrouds. If you move the Blocks in a little more, then you will not have a problem as the lines will pass to the aft most pin rail rack of the foremast section.<br/>
Enjoy !<br/>
Donnie</t>

 

[StevieF]

Re: OcCre Santisima Trinidad Build Log

<t>Looks very good!<br/>
Best of both worlds, all the rigging is visible but with the addition of sail cloth.<br/>
Are you furling all the sails /or just a selection?<br/>
Nice job, Steve..</t>

 

[Donnie]

Re: OcCre Santisima Trinidad Build Log

<t>Thank you Stevie - I am probably going to do them all the same way.</t>

 

[GaryM]

Re: OcCre Santisima Trinidad Build Log

<t>Looking good Donnie. Everyone that furls the sail uses only half or a little less than the required amount of sail that set sails would require. I am sorry I never mentioned that, but assumed you knew or might have read about it on other sites or in books.</t>

 

[carlosys]

Re: OcCre Santisima Trinidad Build Log

<t>Guuuauuu!!!! Perfect work!! This look fantastic.<br/>
Regards</t>

 

[Donnie]

Re: OcCre Santisima Trinidad Build Log

<t>Thanks everyone. Well, it might seem perfect, but it came at a cost of some migraine headaches !!! Not really, but almost. I decided to rig up my sails on the bench as much as I could. If anyone wants to know the trick - here is a graphic until I can do a step by step.<br/>
One thing to remember is that most all of this can be avoided IF you choose your own sail material that is thin enough. The Sails are quite thick - but, I liked the texture of the sails and besides, it was just easier to do it this way.</t>

 

[Donnie]

Re: OcCre Santisima Trinidad Build Log

<t>I was asked to demonstrate the steps involved with the method of furling the sails. I want to be clear and say that this procedure or method might not be suitable for you, or in fact, you may have many other ways besides this way to produce the same effect. <br/>
I had a decision that I had to make at the beginning of all of this and that was to either furl or not to furl, stow, or just leave partially furled. The way I chose was to depict that the sails had just been furled - then naturally, the next step (as far as I am aware of) would be to stow the sails (actually on top of the yards - very tightly). Well, this appearance although accurate, just did not appeal to me. <br/>
So, therefore I chose this way. Another decision I was faced with was to use the sails that came with the model, or to use some type of cloth or tissue paper. I think the tissue paper would have given a more realistic furled shape, but then the tissue did not have the character of the sewn cloth. <br/>
So, therefore, I opted to literally chop the sails down to "create" a furled sail. With this being said, I also rigged the sails completely as the rigging virtually stays anyway. <br/>
At any rate, I am sure that most of you will be scratching their head at this method I chose. Its not for everyone - but it was for me to try and to manage all this. The sails were just too thick - as I tried to furl them without chopping them up.</t>

 

[cog]

Re: OcCre Santisima Trinidad Build Log

<t>Donnie,<br/>
Great post that last one on making a furled sail! Thanks</t>

 

[carlosys]

Re: OcCre Santisima Trinidad Build Log

<t>Great tutorial. Thanks for the information and explanation.</t>

 

[Donnie]

Re: OcCre Santisima Trinidad Build Log

<t>EDIT: Please note that the Blocks on the Main Yard here are not in their correct position for the Bunt and Leech lines. Please refer to previous postings about this. Also the tie off for the Belaying Pin rails are not my final choice. You will see my final choice of location in a later post. Sorry about all the confusion. This is where I realize that the blocks for managing the sails were interfering with the Shrouds. Now also is another modification that is not as apparent. These are the Blocks under the "Top" - There are 4 of them and they needed to me moved towards the center as well. This will keep the Lift lines from interfering as well with the Shrouds. All lift Lines terminate at the base of the mast, and the sail management lines terminate at the Pin Rails.<br/>
There is a lot that I can say right now. One of which -- will this make you a man or mouse? SIGH - I have come to the horrible conclusion that even though OcCre gives things their best shot, the instructions for the Running Rigging as far as the PIN assignments are -- well -- no comment. Well, wait, I guess I will make a comment. The plan (to me) just does not seem logical. You have the Main Yard Sail Running rigging, like the bunts, clues, etc., tying off to a set of pin rails much farther back than what I think it should be. So, therefore, I tied off my rigging to the foremost pin rail and just used my imagination.Now, if any one wants to contest this - it is open for discussion. As for me - I shall take a break and get some pills !!!!</t>

 

[GaryM]

Re: OcCre Santisima Trinidad Build Log

<t>No matter what, it is still a nice model. It seems to me that this is always a short coming with kit manufactures. They do not do enough research on the rigging and the people who design it just look for something that will work. They have no idea that rigging went through major changes over the course of every 50 years or so. We are blessed with several books that that describe these changes but most they are describing what is currently used at the time of writing without saying when it was actually first seen. Their are some manufactures come close. <br/>
As I post more on my model, you will see that the manufacture's rigging contained item that were not in use until 100 years after the ship was launched.<br/>
By what I have seen, Spain did not keep as good of records as the some other countries and little is know of their rigging style.<br/>
I think you have the right idea. Everything on a ship had a purpose and followed a set of rules. Thus, if it looks wrong to you, it probably is incorrect.</t>

 

[Anaga]

Re: OcCre Santisima Trinidad Build Log

<r>Way to go Donnie! Excellent build log. I wish kit manufacturers took notice of your work and did the same on their instructions. Your pics are very well done. A perfect example of- a picture is worth a thousand words-.<br/>
I see you´re having some doubts with the rigging and Occre plans Q and R? Well, have a look at these links and you may find the answer:<br/>
The first link is high resolution pics of Real Carlos. This ship was never built but it is the predecessor of S.T. The model was done by Mateo/Mathew Mullan ten years before he started building S.T. in Cuba.<br/>
<URL url="http://www.modelships.de/Museums_and_replicas/Museo_Naval_Madrid/Photos_Real_Carlos.htm"><LINK_TEXT text="http://www.modelships.de/Museums_and_re ... Carlos.htm">http://www.modelships.de/Museums_and_replicas/Museo_Naval_Madrid/Photos_Real_Carlos.htm</LINK_TEXT></URL><br/>
Next link is a 1/50 model of S.T. done with plans from Museo Naval and to me is the best I´ve seen so far:<br/>
<URL url="http://www.todoababor.es/maquetas/santisima_trinidad3.htm"><LINK_TEXT text="http://www.todoababor.es/maquetas/santi ... nidad3.htm">http://www.todoababor.es/maquetas/santisima_trinidad3.htm</LINK_TEXT></URL>
<QUOTE><s>

</s>By what I have seen, Spain did not keep as good of records as the some other countries and little is know of their rigging style.<e>

</e></QUOTE>
GaryM Yes and no. The problem is that very little has been translated in to English and most of the literature available in Spanish by period ship experts and quite expensive +70€.<br/>
The next link is to a pdf of Diccionario de Arquitectura Naval. Juan José Navarro, Marqués de la Victoria. 1756. Naval Architecture Dictionary by the Marquis of Victoria 1756. The modeller of the 1/50 S.T.<br/>
followed this book for the rigging on his model. Some of the plates are excellent and although the resolution is not very high (cannot read the letters) you get a pretty good idea by looking at the plates.<br/>
There are two ships I love ... the Africa and the last page of the pdf where you see a beautiful 54 ship fully rigged.<br/>
<URL url="http://www.um.es/catedranaval/docs/MDLV.pdf">http://www.um.es/catedranaval/docs/MDLV.pdf</URL><br/>
Next link is an example of late XVII early XVIII century construction. El Arte de Fabricar Reales by Antonio Gaztañeta. The Art of Making Reales (Royals) that´s how they called three deckers.<br/>
<URL url="http://www.um.es/catedranaval/docs/Arte%20de%20fabricar%20Reales%20%28original%29.pdf"><LINK_TEXT text="http://www.um.es/catedranaval/docs/Arte ... nal%29.pdf">http://www.um.es/catedranaval/docs/Arte%20de%20fabricar%20Reales%20%28original%29.pdf</LINK_TEXT></URL><br/>
The ship in the picture below is the same ship appearing in Arte de Fabricar Reales<br/>
<IMG src="http://pinake.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/exposicion-en-el-mn-2003.jpg?w=300&h=300"><s>

</e></IMG><br/>
and in this link you can admire the Nuestra Señora de la Concepcion y de las Animas (Our Lady of Conception and the Souls) the first Spanish three Decker. The pics are high resolution like Real Carlos. This ship took 10 years to make and its made up of 20.000 pieces (I guess they count the nails too). It won the European championship and it is the real San Felipe.<br/>
<URL url="http://www.modelships.de/Museums_and_replicas/Museo_Naval_Madrid/Photos_Nuestra_Senora.htm"><LINK_TEXT text="http://www.modelships.de/Museums_and_re ... Senora.htm">http://www.modelships.de/Museums_and_replicas/Museo_Naval_Madrid/Photos_Nuestra_Senora.htm</LINK_TEXT></URL><br/>
Donnie I have some more things that may be of use to you but because of copyright I would not post them here so let me Know if you´re interested via MP.</r>

 

[Donnie]

Re: OcCre Santisima Trinidad Build Log

<t>All I can say is WOW - Anaga - thank you very much. I am at my office (taking small break) - I will look into that material later. I really do appreciate this very much !!!</t>

 

[GaryM]

Re: OcCre Santisima Trinidad Build Log

<t>Very interesting links. The ships in the museum are fantastic. Thanks.</t>

 

[Donnie]

Re: OcCre Santisima Trinidad Build Log

<r>EDIT April, 3 2014<br/>
Please see the latest topic on these pulleys and eyebolts here:<br/>
<URL url="http://shipsofscale.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=47&start=690"><LINK_TEXT text="http://shipsofscale.com/phpBB3/viewtopi ... &start=690">http://shipsofscale.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=47&start=690</LINK_TEXT></URL></r>

 

[Donnie]

Re: OcCre Santisima Trinidad Build Log

<t>Thanks to all. Some of these tie offs are temporary - for instance the yard lift on that Bitt. I am thinking about adding a sheave on each side, but I would have to remove that assembly. I can make my own brass pulley. I doubt very seriously that they would be grabbing an open line like that with that much weight on it. I think they would be routing the yard lift through the pulley in the bit to accommodate. I could be wrong - Probably I am wrong - but ... it is what it is.</t>

 

[wim500]

Re: OcCre Santisima Trinidad Build Log

<t>Hello Donnie,<br/>
Just had to read somes pages back, but what a beautiful and clean build. Thanks for the clear pics and how-to about the sails.</t>

 

[GaryM]

Re: OcCre Santisima Trinidad Build Log

<t>Nice and tight job Donnie. Great shots.</t>

 

[Donnie]

Re: OcCre Santisima Trinidad Build Log

<t>Thank you Gary et al (and all)<br/>
Well, after some reading several books, I decided to take the bitt (Knighthead) off the Foremast base deck. I wanted to install a double pulley (sheave) as it seems that either the lower yard lift passes through this or the Top Rope. The Top Rope (if I have that term correct) is when they hoist the upper mast and set it. For what ever reason, this arrangement is in detail. So, I guess this (double pulley in the knighthead) is my first departure on a modification that is not included anywhere in the kit.<br/>
The Double Pulley is exactly 4mm (d) x 1.5mm (w) - the center offset of the groove is at .375mm and then 1.12mm roughly. I did not have any design - so I made up my own as I went. So with that said, here are the images for such:</t>

 

[bbrockel]

Re: OcCre Santisima Trinidad Build Log

<t>Very nice lathe work on the double sheaves. The look great!</t>