HMS Fly 1:64 - Amati/Victory Models by CaptainsCabin

[CaptainsCabin]

Stateroom Wash Stand​

My wife and I visited the Archives of the National Maritime Museum, London, and were able to measure and take photographs of the Wash Stand used by Vice-Admiral Horatio Nelson. Whilst this would not have been on HMS Fly, perhaps something similar would have been.

The attached document explains in detail how it was made.

 

[Vfordyce]

Thanks Vic; Adobe Photo Shop had brought a new dimension to my modelling! I am going to post the Stateroom Wash Stand which is a miniature reproduction of the Wash Stand used by Vice-Admiral Horatio Nelson.

Lloyd

Very cool!

 

[CaptainsCabin]

Very cool!

Thank you!

 

[CaptainsCabin]

Ллойд, дайте мне знать, что ответит Национальный морской музей. Спасибо.

Добрый день Александр, книга Дэвида Анцчерела, которую я надеюсь, даст мне ответ на ваш вопрос относительно переборки прогнозирования, был задержан; Amazon посоветую, это может приехать к 28 июля, если это не сделаю возврат!
Я все еще буду стремиться открыть ответ, но это займет больше времени, чем я надеялся.

Ллойд
Dobryy den' Aleksandr, kniga Devida Antscherela, kotoruyu ya nadeyus', dast mne otvet na vash vopros otnositel'no pereborki prognozirovaniya, byl zaderzhan; Amazon posovetuyu, eto mozhet priyekhat' k 28 iyulya, yesli eto ne sdelayu vozvrat!
YA vse yeshche budu stremit'sya otkryt' otvet, no eto zaymet bol'she vremeni, chem ya nadeyalsya.

Lloyd

Good afternoon Alexander, the book by David Antscherl which I hope will give me the answer to your question regarding the Forecastle Bulkhead, has been delayed; Amazon advise it may arrive by July 28th, if it does not I will get a refund!

I will still endeavour to discover an answer, but it is going to take longer than I had hoped.

Lloyd

 

[Alexander74]

Добрый день Александр, книга Дэвида Анцчерела, которую я надеюсь, даст мне ответ на ваш вопрос относительно переборки прогнозирования, был задержан; Amazon посоветую, это может приехать к 28 июля, если это не сделаю возврат!
Я все еще буду стремиться открыть ответ, но это займет больше времени, чем я надеялся.

Ллойд
Dobryy den' Aleksandr, kniga Devida Antscherela, kotoruyu ya nadeyus', dast mne otvet na vash vopros otnositel'no pereborki prognozirovaniya, byl zaderzhan; Amazon posovetuyu, eto mozhet priyekhat' k 28 iyulya, yesli eto ne sdelayu vozvrat!
YA vse yeshche budu stremit'sya otkryt' otvet, no eto zaymet bol'she vremeni, chem ya nadeyalsya.

Lloyd

Good afternoon Alexander, the book by David Antscherl which I hope will give me the answer to your question regarding the Forecastle Bulkhead, has been delayed; Amazon advise it may arrive by July 28th, if it does not I will get a refund!

I will still endeavour to discover an answer, but it is going to take longer than I had hoped.

Lloyd

Lloyd, good afternoon. The book is probably the best option, get an answer to this question. And what are the museum employees and could not answer your question?

 

[CaptainsCabin]

Lloyd, good afternoon. The book is probably the best option, get an answer to this question. And what are the museum employees and could not answer your question?

Доброе утро, Александр, я думаю, моя книга потеряна, и мне придется покупать ее снова, что будет еще одной задержкой. Хотя сотрудник музея сказал, что изучит для меня некоторую информацию, по правде говоря, я не думаю, что он что-нибудь сделает. Я постараюсь найти ответ, это интересный вопрос.

Ллойд
Dobroye utro, Aleksandr, ya dumayu, moya kniga poteryana, i mne pridetsya pokupat' yeye snova, chto budet yeshche odnoy zaderzhkoy. Khotya sotrudnik muzeya skazal, chto izuchit dlya menya nekotoruyu informatsiyu, po pravde govorya, ya ne dumayu, chto on chto-nibud' sdelayet. YA postarayus' nayti otvet, eto interesnyy vopros.

Lloyd

Good morning Alexander, I think my book has been lost, and I am going to have to buy it again, which will be a further delay. Whilst the museum employee said he would research some information for me, in truth I do not think he will do anything. I will try and find an answer as it is an interesting question.

Lloyd

 

[Alexander74]

Lloyd, I hope the book will answer this question. Can ask here on the forum and one of our colleagues has this book. They probably will not refuse help.

 

[CaptainsCabin]

Lloyd, I hope the book will answer this question. Can ask here on the forum and one of our colleagues has this book. They probably will not refuse help.

Александр, я задам вопрос, есть ли эта книга у коллег и могут ли они помочь.
Aleksandr, ya zadam vopros, yest' li eta kniga u kolleg i mogut li oni pomoch'.

Alexander, I will ask the question if any colleagues have this book and if they could help.

 

[CaptainsCabin]

QUESTION regarding HMS Fly Forecastle Bulkhead and David Antscherl​

I have been advised to refer to books by David Antscherl to determine the Forecastle Bulkhead arrangement on HMS Fly. I have purchased "The Fully Framed Model, HMN Swan Class Sloops 1767 - 1780", but regretfully it is currently lost in transient to me!

Does any member possess this book, and could advise if the Forecastle Bulkhead is mentioned?

THANK YOU!

 

[Sarge]

Volume II Chapter 8 Page 89
8.34 The Forecastle Bulkhead.
This is another item that is not well defined on the NMM Plans....
... what do you want to know ??

 

[CaptainsCabin]

Volume II Chapter 8 Page 89
8.34 The Forecastle Bulkhead.
This is another item that is not well defined on the NMM Plans....
... what do you want to know ??

Thank you for replying Sarge,

In my HMS Fly build I constructed the Forecastle Bulkhead based on the original Admiralty plans which I saw at the National Maritime Museum, London, which is attached below.

Is there an explanation as to how the rope would have been fastened to the 'Fore Riding Bitts Cross Beam', and what would have happened to the Forecastle Bulkhead whilst the Fly was at anchor?

Would it have just been 'swung up' inwards and fastened to the deck beam, or would it have been temporarily removed'.

Any insight would be very much appreciated.

Thank you - Lloyd

 

[CaptainsCabin]

Вопрос не в положении якоря, как якорный трос пройдет через палубу и как он пройдет через якорь? В вашем приложении на странице 2 вы делаете закрытую переборку. Это закрывает якорь, на который наматывается якорь. Прикрепил фото того же корабля, но без переборки. Укус якоря отмечен желтой стрелкой. Возможно, есть какое-то решение этой проблемы, а я его пока не вижу. Думаю, на этот момент стоит обратить внимание.View attachment 241756

Добрый вечер, Александр, получил ответ на вопрос по поводу переборки Forecastle. Проверьте ветку, чтобы увидеть, что было сказано.

Ллойд
Dobryy vecher, Aleksandr, poluchil otvet na vopros po povodu pereborki Forecastle. Prover'te vetku, chtoby uvidet', chto bylo skazano.

Lloyd


Good evening Alexander, I have received a reply to the question regarding the Forecastle Bulkhead. Check the thread to view what has been said.

Lloyd

 

[Sarge]

Lloyd.
There is no suggestions in the book about seamanship. It does has you rightly say fold up on a hinge from the deckhead above. It also makes reference to there being two cutout sections where it goes over the riding bitts.
With regards to it being in place whilst the anchor is worked, I thought it being in place and swung up would hinder the return of the messenger cables making their return to the manger rolls ready to be used again.

 

[Alexander74]

Добрый вечер, Александр, получил ответ на вопрос по поводу переборки Forecastle. Проверьте ветку, чтобы увидеть, что было сказано.

Ллойд
Dobryy vecher, Aleksandr, poluchil otvet na vopros po povodu pereborki Forecastle. Prover'te vetku, chtoby uvidet', chto bylo skazano.

Lloyd


Good evening Alexander, I have received a reply to the question regarding the Forecastle Bulkhead. Check the thread to view what has been said.

Lloyd

Lloyd, where to look? I did not understand

 

[CaptainsCabin]

Lloyd.
There is no suggestions in the book about seamanship. It does has you rightly say fold up on a hinge from the deckhead above. It also makes reference to there being two cutout sections where it goes over the riding bitts.
With regards to it being in place whilst the anchor is worked, I thought it being in place and swung up would hinder the return of the messenger cables making their return to the manger rolls ready to be used again.

Sarge, Thank you for the information; yes, I had to make two pieces which fitted over the Riding Bitts. I wonder if I may ask three questions: -

Question 1 - Would I be correct in assuming the 'messenger' rope would have been stored in the space just forward of the fore mast in the Forecastle?

Question 2 - The main anchor rope, would it have been stored by passing down the hatch just fore of the Capstan?

Question 3 - When at sea, the anchors would be lashed port and starboard at the bow, but the rope from the anchor would this be stored with the messenger rope ready to be fixed to the main anchor rope when it is brought up from the hold?

I have found a video of the anchor rope being worked on HMS Victory.

Lloyd

 

[CaptainsCabin]

Вопрос не в положении якоря, как якорный трос пройдет через палубу и как он пройдет через якорь? В вашем приложении на странице 2 вы делаете закрытую переборку. Это закрывает якорь, на который наматывается якорь. Прикрепил фото того же корабля, но без переборки. Укус якоря отмечен желтой стрелкой. Возможно, есть какое-то решение этой проблемы, а я его пока не вижу. Думаю, на этот момент стоит обратить внимание.View attachment 241756

Ответ на мой вопрос по поводу переборки Forecastle от Sarge
Otvet na moy vopros po povodu pereborki Forecastle ot Sarge

Ллойд.
В книге нет предложений по морскому делу. Он действительно заставляет вас правильно сказать, что он складывается на петле с верхней панели. Он также ссылается на наличие двух секций с вырезами, которые проходят над верхними частями.
Что касается того, что он находится на месте во время работы якоря, я подумал, что он будет на месте и повернут вверх, что будет препятствовать возвращению посыльных кабелей, возвращающих их к рулонам яслей, готовым к повторному использованию.
Lloyd.
V knige net predlozheniy po morskomu delu. On deystvitel'no zastavlyayet vas pravil'no skazat', chto on skladyvayetsya na petle s verkhney paneli. On takzhe ssylayetsya na nalichiye dvukh sektsiy s vyrezami, kotoryye prokhodyat nad verkhnimi chastyami.
Chto kasayetsya togo, chto on nakhoditsya na meste vo vremya raboty yakorya, ya podumal, chto on budet na meste i povernut vverkh, chto budet prepyatstvovat' vozvrashcheniyu posyl'nykh kabeley, vozvrashchayushchikh ikh k rulonam yasley, gotovym k povtornomu ispol'zovaniyu.



Sarge, спасибо за информацию; да, мне пришлось сделать две детали, которые подошли бы поверх Riding Bitts. Интересно, могу ли я задать три вопроса:

Вопрос 1 - Прав ли я, предполагая, что «посыльный» канат хранился в пространстве прямо перед фок-мачтой в Forecastle?

Вопрос 2 - Главный якорный трос, мог ли он храниться, проходя через люк прямо перед шпилем?

Вопрос 3 - В море якоря будут привязаны по левому и правому борту на носу, но канат от якоря будет храниться вместе с посыльным канатом, готовым к прикреплению к основному якорному канату, когда он будет выведен из трюма. ?

Я нашел видео проработки якорного каната на HMS Victory.

Ллойд
Sarge, spasibo za informatsiyu; da, mne prishlos' sdelat' dve detali, kotoryye podoshli by poverkh Riding Bitts. Interesno, mogu li ya zadat' tri voprosa:

Vopros 1 - Prav li ya, predpolagaya, chto «posyl'nyy» kanat khranilsya v prostranstve pryamo pered fok-machtoy v Forecastle?

Vopros 2 - Glavnyy yakornyy tros, mog li on khranit'sya, prokhodya cherez lyuk pryamo pered shpilem?

Vopros 3 - V more yakorya budut privyazany po levomu i pravomu bortu na nosu, no kanat ot yakorya budet khranit'sya vmeste s posyl'nym kanatom, gotovym k prikrepleniyu k osnovnomu yakornomu kanatu, kogda on budet vyveden iz tryuma. ?

YA nashel video prorabotki yakornogo kanata na HMS Victory.

Lloyd

The question is not about the position of the anchor, how will the anchor line go through the deck and how will it go through the anchor? In your application on page 2, you make a closed bulkhead. This closes the anchor onto which the anchor is being wound. Attached a photo of the same ship, but without the bulkhead. bite is marked with a yellow arrow. Perhaps there is some solution to this problem, but I do not see it yet. I think this point is worth paying attention to.


Вы правы, я должен немного подумать над этим. Я следил за дизайном переборки по копии оригинальных чертежей из Национального морского музея, поэтому я думаю, что позвоню им, чтобы узнать, есть ли у них ответ. Спасибо, Александр, за вопрос.

Ллойд
Vy pravy, ya dolzhen nemnogo podumat' nad etim. YA sledil za dizaynom pereborki po kopii original'nykh chertezhey iz Natsional'nogo morskogo muzeya, poetomu ya dumayu, chto pozvonyu im, chtoby uznat', yest' li u nikh otvet. Spasibo, Aleksandr, za vopros.

Lloyd

You are correct, this is a point I will have to give some thought to. I followed the design of the bulkhead from a copy of the original drawings from the National Maritime Museum, so I think I will phone them to see if they have an answer. Thank you, Alexander, for posing the question.



Lloyd

 

[CaptainsCabin]

Ответ на мой вопрос по поводу переборки Forecastle от Sarge
Otvet na moy vopros po povodu pereborki Forecastle ot Sarge

Ллойд.
В книге нет предложений по морскому делу. Он действительно заставляет вас правильно сказать, что он складывается на петле с верхней панели. Он также ссылается на наличие двух секций с вырезами, которые проходят над верхними частями.
Что касается того, что он находится на месте во время работы якоря, я подумал, что он будет на месте и повернут вверх, что будет препятствовать возвращению посыльных кабелей, возвращающих их к рулонам яслей, готовым к повторному использованию.
Lloyd.
V knige net predlozheniy po morskomu delu. On deystvitel'no zastavlyayet vas pravil'no skazat', chto on skladyvayetsya na petle s verkhney paneli. On takzhe ssylayetsya na nalichiye dvukh sektsiy s vyrezami, kotoryye prokhodyat nad verkhnimi chastyami.
Chto kasayetsya togo, chto on nakhoditsya na meste vo vremya raboty yakorya, ya podumal, chto on budet na meste i povernut vverkh, chto budet prepyatstvovat' vozvrashcheniyu posyl'nykh kabeley, vozvrashchayushchikh ikh k rulonam yasley, gotovym k povtornomu ispol'zovaniyu.



Sarge, спасибо за информацию; да, мне пришлось сделать две детали, которые подошли бы поверх Riding Bitts. Интересно, могу ли я задать три вопроса:

Вопрос 1 - Прав ли я, предполагая, что «посыльный» канат хранился в пространстве прямо перед фок-мачтой в Forecastle?

Вопрос 2 - Главный якорный трос, мог ли он храниться, проходя через люк прямо перед шпилем?

Вопрос 3 - В море якоря будут привязаны по левому и правому борту на носу, но канат от якоря будет храниться вместе с посыльным канатом, готовым к прикреплению к основному якорному канату, когда он будет выведен из трюма. ?

Я нашел видео проработки якорного каната на HMS Victory.

Ллойд
Sarge, spasibo za informatsiyu; da, mne prishlos' sdelat' dve detali, kotoryye podoshli by poverkh Riding Bitts. Interesno, mogu li ya zadat' tri voprosa:

Vopros 1 - Prav li ya, predpolagaya, chto «posyl'nyy» kanat khranilsya v prostranstve pryamo pered fok-machtoy v Forecastle?

Vopros 2 - Glavnyy yakornyy tros, mog li on khranit'sya, prokhodya cherez lyuk pryamo pered shpilem?

Vopros 3 - V more yakorya budut privyazany po levomu i pravomu bortu na nosu, no kanat ot yakorya budet khranit'sya vmeste s posyl'nym kanatom, gotovym k prikrepleniyu k osnovnomu yakornomu kanatu, kogda on budet vyveden iz tryuma. ?

YA nashel video prorabotki yakornogo kanata na HMS Victory.

Lloyd

Lloyd, where to look? I did not understand

Александр, это ветка от Sarge, просто нажмите здесь.
Aleksandr, eto vetka ot Sarge, prosto nazhmite zdes'.

 

[Sarge]

Lloyd.
Sorry for delay in reply...I've been working between research...
1. There is no difinitive in either Brian Lavery's Arming and Fitting or Darcy Lever's 'YSO Sheet . My own thoughts are it would have been unshipped and stored below decks with the main cables.
2. Yes you're correct here. It would have gone down into the main hold and been stored on top of the barrels. In bigger 1st Rate ships it would have gone down onto the Cable Tier which was a seperate deck level above the Orlop Deck (which 6th rates didn't
have).
3. Lavery suggests they would be rigged at the same time and an amount of cable laid out on deck ready to drop anchor. The inboard end would then be secured via the riding bitts and made fast to a number of stoppers.

I'll dig out some old photos of my HMS Diana which has her anchors on the fish davit in process of being hauled in. They are on an old hard drive in the attic...
Sarge.

 

[CaptainsCabin]

Lloyd.
Sorry for delay in reply...I've been working between research...
1. There is no difinitive in either Brian Lavery's Arming and Fitting or Darcy Lever's 'YSO Sheet . My own thoughts are it would have been unshipped and stored below decks with the main cables.
2. Yes you're correct here. It would have gone down into the main hold and been stored on top of the barrels. In bigger 1st Rate ships it would have gone down onto the Cable Tier which was a seperate deck level above the Orlop Deck (which 6th rates didn't
have).
3. Lavery suggests they would be rigged at the same time and an amount of cable laid out on deck ready to drop anchor. The inboard end would then be secured via the riding bitts and made fast to a number of stoppers.

I'll dig out some old photos of my HMS Diana which has her anchors on the fish davit in process of being hauled in. They are on an old hard drive in the attic...
Sarge.

Sarge,

Thank you for the information you have supplied, it is very interesting. I have discovered there is seldom a definite answer to these questions. As I am constructing my HMS Fly, I find it so interesting the historical data one learns in the process of building the model.

Currently I am resolving how to complete the hull planking; during researching the hull plank lengths for HMS Fly I came across the planking expansion plan for HMS Hawke (1793). It is so interesting to read how they were experimenting with the wood for the planks, to see which were found to be rotten.

Currently I am working on a ‘virtual’ hull planking (Adobe Photoshop), just so I can determine where the butts are going to be, especially around the Gun Ports.

Lloyd

 

[CaptainsCabin]

Rudder Assembly and Great Cabin​

The idea is the Rudder will be fully working when this build has been completed. As the Rudder Stock will be passing through the Great Cabin, an enclosure has been constructed to keep the sea elements from entering the cabin. Notes on how this has been achieved is attached.

Preliminary video of Rudder (12 seconds)