Le Fleuron 1729 - 64 Gun Ship PoB Scratch Build in 1:48 - (Ancre Monograph-J. Boudriot/G. Delacroix)
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Looking great. I think Igor’s method makes a lot of sense too. Using staples to attach the planks I’m not sure about though. Your gun deck will be included I take it ?
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Hi, thanks for the kind words. BTW, I'm located in Hackettstown, NJ.
Yes, the gun deck will be included. I'll remove the bulkheads the gun deck up. I'll then install a false deck, although it will be seated on deck beams. Not every deck beam ill be included as outlined in the plans. Just enough required to provide a sound foundation.
Just a note on the staples. They will not remain in the hull. I will remove after the installation of each layer of planking. Also, as I will be removing the bulkheads above the gun deck, they will be coated with a release agent to ease their removal. I need to test what I'm going to use, which I will do today. I will first try petroleum jelly/Vaseline. So if I'm going todo this I need a way to hold the planks tight to the bulkheads above the gun deck, hence the staples.
The process will be:
1) Glue each plank to the bulkheads and each other and staple to the bulkheads tightly until the glue has dried.
2) Remove all staples.
3) Paint the entire hull with a diluted PVA solution.
4) Repeat for layers 2 and 3.
I will attempt, where the hull's angles allow me, to change the direction of each layer of planking to create a strong structure, much like plywood.
Welcome aboard! And thank you for your input and questions. They truly help me think things through.
Cheers,
Ken
NJ huh, nice. I was in Passaic and Bergen Co's for 50 yrs moved down to Ocean Co about 10 yrs ago.
Yes I never really understood the staple thing but for underlayers it would work no doubt. Igors method lets you build on bulkheads and then frees the gun deck. Great way to do it. Le Fleuron is a favorite, beautiful ship. My next will be a POF Le Rochefort. I build the Blandford section last year and that's got me hooked on POF. If I succeed or not is another matter ! Good luck
Yes I never really understood the staple thing but for underlayers it would work no doubt. Igors method lets you build on bulkheads and then frees the gun deck. Great way to do it. Le Fleuron is a favorite, beautiful ship. My next will be a POF Le Rochefort. I build the Blandford section last year and that's got me hooked on POF. If I succeed or not is another matter ! Good luck
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Hello Everyone,
Shell planking has commenced, at 5:00 AM. I think I interrupted one of the Admiral's dreams. I got the "Malocchio" (the look). I'll know for sure later.
I am, admittedly in uncharted waters now. I only know what I've studied and read. Progress will most likely slow down a bit. This is one of the times I need to force myself to take my time. I've already noticed (learning through) little mistakes. Aside from that, I think I may have made one BIG one, that may qualify as a "Re-do" membership for me.
The Ugly Duckling
This planking is structural, not cosmetic.
I'm working much like normal hull planking. Instead of wales down and keel up, it's rails down and keel up. And stern to bow.
First, after testing it, I've coated all of the bulkheads edges with Vaseline so that the planks do not stick to them and they can be easily removed later.
Creating a skin that will be covered by 2 additional skins allows me to work fairly quickly.
As you can imagine, for the FIRST layer only, everything below the gun deck will be very strong. The structure above the gun deck, for the FIRST layer only will be somewhat fragile.
Ok, for the first small issues, easily addressed.
The 4 planks above the main wales are not long enough to cover the entire bow. I'll cut them back 2 bulkheads to get a good purchase and wrap them around.
The lower group of planks highlighted would never be acceptable in normal planking due to their sweeping angle upwards. They aren't acceptable in this case either as the angle creates forces that will work against the structure and the 2nd layer. I'll cut them parallel to the water line and run a more horizontal run of planks.
I'm realizing the first layer, when all is said and done may look like one of my Grandma's patch quilts.
All of the images above are of the Port side. This is because I started with the Starboard side and in my OCD way, became a machine and didn't stop to take any progress photos. I will show it now and with it the potential BIG issue I think I have.
It may not be completely clear in this photo, but there is a problem with the run of planks over the bolsters I created. I think I know what the issue is and hope I'm wrong. I need to inspect further to confirm. I expected some small bumps in the road and even maybe a big one here or there, but this early on is a little alarming. Oh well, it's only a model ship!
I don't need to make it more dramatic than it is.
Thanks for following. Till next time...
Cheers.
Shell planking has commenced, at 5:00 AM. I think I interrupted one of the Admiral's dreams. I got the "Malocchio" (the look). I'll know for sure later.
I am, admittedly in uncharted waters now. I only know what I've studied and read. Progress will most likely slow down a bit. This is one of the times I need to force myself to take my time. I've already noticed (learning through) little mistakes. Aside from that, I think I may have made one BIG one, that may qualify as a "Re-do" membership for me.
The Ugly Duckling
This planking is structural, not cosmetic.
I'm working much like normal hull planking. Instead of wales down and keel up, it's rails down and keel up. And stern to bow.
First, after testing it, I've coated all of the bulkheads edges with Vaseline so that the planks do not stick to them and they can be easily removed later.
Creating a skin that will be covered by 2 additional skins allows me to work fairly quickly.
As you can imagine, for the FIRST layer only, everything below the gun deck will be very strong. The structure above the gun deck, for the FIRST layer only will be somewhat fragile.
Ok, for the first small issues, easily addressed.
The 4 planks above the main wales are not long enough to cover the entire bow. I'll cut them back 2 bulkheads to get a good purchase and wrap them around.
The lower group of planks highlighted would never be acceptable in normal planking due to their sweeping angle upwards. They aren't acceptable in this case either as the angle creates forces that will work against the structure and the 2nd layer. I'll cut them parallel to the water line and run a more horizontal run of planks.
I'm realizing the first layer, when all is said and done may look like one of my Grandma's patch quilts.
All of the images above are of the Port side. This is because I started with the Starboard side and in my OCD way, became a machine and didn't stop to take any progress photos. I will show it now and with it the potential BIG issue I think I have.
It may not be completely clear in this photo, but there is a problem with the run of planks over the bolsters I created. I think I know what the issue is and hope I'm wrong. I need to inspect further to confirm. I expected some small bumps in the road and even maybe a big one here or there, but this early on is a little alarming. Oh well, it's only a model ship!
I don't need to make it more dramatic than it is.Thanks for following. Till next time...
Cheers.
I just checked with Guinness. You are the new record holder for fastest hull planking ever. Congratulations. Be on the lookout for your certificate (frame not included).
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One of the symptoms of OCD is perfection.
I think it can then be attributed to the way you apply the Vaseline.
But, your fast, that's for sure. I would get made in my head seeing all these gaps. But I'm sure with the next layer everything will be okay. I see this method before with these nails. We keep watching
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Hah Paul. This is no great achievement. There is no real planning other than the where do I start and where do I finish. No spilling, cutting, beveling or general sanding of individual planks. I have a little pan with slightly diluted PVA in it and a roller that I roll the planks over, place, 10 seconds later there are 4-5 staples in it and boom onto the next one.
It is certainly a bi-product, to a certain extent of my OCD. I get so focused. I think I stood in a 3 foot area for almost 5 hours, walking away once to visit the head. If I had a video of the entire time period, it might be disturbing. The crazy thing about it is, I only get into this mode when addressing mundane repetitive tasks. Sometimes it results in errors and small "re-dos". The nature of the beast. Also, my loving Admiral knows not to interrupt me during these Spurts as it causes me to lose focus and I have trouble picking back up where I left off.
This is also why some of my updates read like I regurgitated every thought I've had on the update issue. I am always trying to edit myself.
On another note, I have revisited my BIG issue I mentioned and now know what happened. As the Admiral is not looking over my shoulder while I type this, I think my mistake was related to the dynamics of my world.
I'll close this and post in a separate note below.
It is certainly a bi-product, to a certain extent of my OCD. I get so focused. I think I stood in a 3 foot area for almost 5 hours, walking away once to visit the head. If I had a video of the entire time period, it might be disturbing.
The crazy thing about it is, I only get into this mode when addressing mundane repetitive tasks. Sometimes it results in errors and small "re-dos". The nature of the beast. Also, my loving Admiral knows not to interrupt me during these Spurts as it causes me to lose focus and I have trouble picking back up where I left off.This is also why some of my updates read like I regurgitated every thought I've had on the update issue. I am always trying to edit myself.
On another note, I have revisited my BIG issue I mentioned and now know what happened. As the Admiral is not looking over my shoulder while I type this, I think my mistake was related to the dynamics of my world.
I'll close this and post in a separate note below.
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Yes, Stephan, perfection is one component. I do have OCD behaviors. Keep in mind you don't need to exhibit all of them. The relevant behaviors for me are in bold below. This is not a complete list. It's just a few I copied off a site to share what I deal with. Part of dealing with these is to actually challenge your self to face them. Dealing with ambiguity is the one I face most when building models as there are many uncertainties. Conversely, "Fear of contamination or dirt" and "Washing and cleaning" I don't have. The Admiral always makes fun, "Why couldn't you have the ones that would help me with the cleaning of the house!" I do of course, she just likes to tease.
The challenge for some of these is that it makes me feel very uncomfortable whenever I face something that falls into one of these categories. But if I do, successfully, it makes me feel very good.
Obsessions can manifest sometimes.
- Fear of contamination or dirt
- Doubting and having difficulty tolerating uncertainty
- Needing things orderly and symmetrical....for ME to a certain extent
- Washing and cleaning
- Checking
- Counting
- Orderliness
- Following a strict routine
- Demanding reassurance
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So, I discovered my error. I would like to blame my wonderful sweetie, but I cannot.
The other day when I created the bolsters to support the direction and tuck of the planks up to the wing transom did not look right. They were too square.
Examples.
In retrospect, what I should have done is temporarily mount the originals and sand them, in place to the correct shape. Instead I created new ones and was happy with them. I don't specifically recall what interrupted me, but I think it was dinner.
When I picked up where I left off, I unwittingly permanently fixed the originals. I did not realize this until my planking reached the area and I was like, WTF? After a little time searching I found the "fixed" bolsters in the trash bin.
So, I said I should have mounted the originals and sand them down, on the ship to the correct shape. Well what do you know, I got my wish! Can you tell I had mixed emotions?!? Where is the RE-DO pin please?!? As you guessed, I have to remove all of the planks in the area to sand them down. YAY!!!!
Oh well. It's only a model ship!
Going to take a short break and spend the day walking in the park with my love.
Till next time...
Cheers.
The other day when I created the bolsters to support the direction and tuck of the planks up to the wing transom did not look right. They were too square.
Examples.
In retrospect, what I should have done is temporarily mount the originals and sand them, in place to the correct shape. Instead I created new ones and was happy with them. I don't specifically recall what interrupted me, but I think it was dinner.
When I picked up where I left off, I unwittingly permanently fixed the originals. I did not realize this until my planking reached the area and I was like, WTF? After a little time searching I found the "fixed" bolsters in the trash bin.
So, I said I should have mounted the originals and sand them down, on the ship to the correct shape. Well what do you know, I got my wish!
Can you tell I had mixed emotions?!? Where is the RE-DO pin please?!? As you guessed, I have to remove all of the planks in the area to sand them down. YAY!!!!Oh well. It's only a model ship!
Going to take a short break and spend the day walking in the park with my love.
Till next time...
Cheers.
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I was just joking Ken ROFL
But your planking, take your time, save time sanding. Or do I want it to perfect? I wait and see, but my mind went crazy working in this way, maybe I got OCD too, incl. the avoiding washing and cleaning my admiral will confirm this.
Have a nice walk
But your planking, take your time, save time sanding. Or do I want it to perfect? I wait and see, but my mind went crazy working in this way, maybe I got OCD too, incl. the avoiding washing and cleaning
my admiral will confirm this.Have a nice walk
I haven’t seen Igor’s method other than on his site. You’re working off Ancre plans I guess ? I thinking you may have issues with the total size of the hull being larger than the plans so you may not be able to use the plans for measurements later on. The second layer will be what planks again ? Also could your frames be thicker ?
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Is it "Phil"? Yes, Ancre. It's in the thread's title.
If you go back to the first few posts where I share my planning, you'll see I reduced the Frames' plan by the amount of the width of the 3 layers of planks, plus a % tolerance for sanding. I will error in being over, with the knowledge it is easier to sand off any overages.I will take internal hull measurements long before any internal structures are added.
I'm sure I may have forgotten something. but after 8 months of planning, I should have considered the critical items.
Thanks for sharing those points of interest! They certainly are legit!
Cheers.
It’s Tony, Phillip is my middle. Yes good planning on your part indeed. Looking forward to watching your progress.Is it "Phil"? Yes, Ancre. It's in the thread's title.
I will take internal hull measurements long before any internal structures are added.
I'm sure I may have forgotten something. but after 8 months of planning, I should have considered the critical items.
Thanks for sharing those points of interest! They certainly are legit!
Cheers.
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Hi Ken
Oh boy, I am not going to be popular, but at times the teacher in me takes over. Whenever I prepare a lesson, I always ask myself the question: "What value will this lesson add to the overall growth of the students?". If I don't have a definite answer, I go back and I re-plan the lesson until I am sure that the students will ABSOLUTELY gain something from it.
With that said, let's look at your rationale. You have three layers of planking that needs to go on the ship. The way you are doing the first planking will eventually get the hull covered, but to me that is not the point. The point is what value has this first planking added to your overall planking skills? And therein lies my problem. I would have viewed this as the perfect opportunity to practice tapering, beveling and spiling. Being the first layer, there are sure to be imperfections and mistakes. That is fine, because on the second layer, you will be able to iron out many of those mistakes. Not only will this be a tremendous confidence booster to your own abilities, but you will have gained the experience (value) of the lessons learnt during the first two layers to tackle the third layer with confidence.
I do hope that you see this post in the way that it was intended - as a friend who sincerely wants another friend to succeed in what is a very brave endeavour.
Oh boy, I am not going to be popular, but at times the teacher in me takes over. Whenever I prepare a lesson, I always ask myself the question: "What value will this lesson add to the overall growth of the students?". If I don't have a definite answer, I go back and I re-plan the lesson until I am sure that the students will ABSOLUTELY gain something from it.
With that said, let's look at your rationale. You have three layers of planking that needs to go on the ship. The way you are doing the first planking will eventually get the hull covered, but to me that is not the point. The point is what value has this first planking added to your overall planking skills? And therein lies my problem. I would have viewed this as the perfect opportunity to practice tapering, beveling and spiling. Being the first layer, there are sure to be imperfections and mistakes. That is fine, because on the second layer, you will be able to iron out many of those mistakes. Not only will this be a tremendous confidence booster to your own abilities, but you will have gained the experience (value) of the lessons learnt during the first two layers to tackle the third layer with confidence.
I do hope that you see this post in the way that it was intended - as a friend who sincerely wants another friend to succeed in what is a very brave endeavour.
Heinrich wise words and a good explanation of the approach.
Ken I have seen a great job from you so far, I think you will continue to do a great job. Perhaps it would be better if you used small tacks instead of the staples as I think this will cause problems when sanding and with the next row of planks. However, that's just my opinion, I'm not a professional. Greetings Tobias
Just one example, that was on my first project.
Ken I have seen a great job from you so far, I think you will continue to do a great job. Perhaps it would be better if you used small tacks instead of the staples as I think this will cause problems when sanding and with the next row of planks. However, that's just my opinion, I'm not a professional. Greetings Tobias
Just one example, that was on my first project.
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Ken, the words of Tobias and especially the words of Heinrich speaks my toughts before. They can say it better in your language then me. I started with a joke to give it attention (that went wrong, again sorry for that) but the way they say it, that hits the point. I also think the way you do the first layer of planks gives a lot of problems on the next layers. But this is also mine noble opinion, you still are and will be the captain of your project.